Fusing Science and Wellness: Insights from Dr. Susan Hewlings of Radicle Science

Episode Overview

Episode Topic: In this captivating episode of NutraPreneur, we dive deep into the world of nutraceuticals and explore how Radicle Science, a pioneering force in the industry, is spearheading a paradigm shift in scientific consulting. Join us as we unravel the transformative journey with Dr. Susan Hewlings, Vice President of Research Affairs at Radicle Science, and discover how they are redefining the landscape of wellness products.

Lessons You’ll Learn: In this enlightening episode, you’ll discover how Radicle Science, a trailblazer in scientific consulting, is revolutionizing the nutraceutical industry with its pioneering approach to decentralized clinical trials. These innovative trials not only accelerate research but also make it more cost-effective and accessible to a diverse range of participants. This transformative model is reshaping how we evaluate the effectiveness of wellness products, promising quicker and more inclusive outcomes. Additionally, Radicle Science’s emphasis on affordability and accessibility ensures that a broader population can engage in trials, benefitting both consumers and the industry.

About Our Guest: Dr. Susan Hewlings, the Vice President of Research Affairs at Radicle Science, is a distinguished figure in the fields of nutrition and scientific consulting. With her extensive academic background and industry expertise, she brings a unique perspective to the podcast, shedding light on the intersection of academia and industry within the nutraceutical domain.

Topics Covered: In this enlightening conversation, Dr. Susan Hewlings, an expert in scientific consulting, takes us on her journey from academia to industry, emphasizing the crucial role of bridging scientific knowledge with practical applications. We delve into Radicle Science’s innovative model and its real-world impact on various conditions and populations.

Our Guest: Dr. Susan Hewlings: The Vice President of Research Affairs at Radicle Science

Episode Transcript:

Susan Hewlings: What’s the difference between the microbiome of an elite athlete in the average person, an unhealthy person? And how can we use the microbiome from the fit person can and help change the unhealthy person and those kind of things? So I think there’s a lot of that engineering and biologics going on that’s super interesting.

Bethany Jolley: Welcome to Neutral Preneur, the Neutral Industry Podcast. I’m your host, food scientist and nutraceuticals consultant Bethany Jolly. Each episode will be exploring what it takes to thrive in the nutraceutical industry, from conversations with successful nutraceutical entrepreneurs to venture capitalists to tech executives whose innovations are reshaping the nutraceuticals industry. We explore the innovations and trends that are shaping the next generation of nutraceutical businesses. Welcome back to Neutropenia, the Hub, for unveiling revolutionary insights into the nutraceutical industry. I’m your host, Bethany. Today, we’re privileged to have Dr. Susan Hulings, a true luminary in the fields of nutrition and scientific consulting, and the vice president of research affairs for Radical Science. With over two decades of experience, Dr. Hulings has made significant contributions to the dietary supplement and medical industries, and we’re excited to delve into her expertise. Thank you for joining us today, Susan.

Susan Hewlings: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Bethany Jolley: Yeah. So first off, could you share with our listeners your remarkable journey in nutrition and scientific consulting that’s led you to become the vice president of research affairs at Radical Science?

Susan Hewlings: So my background is I have a PhD in nutrition and a master’s in exercise physiology and a bachelor’s in food and nutrition, all from Florida State University. So got to give Florida State University a big shout-out for having a huge part of my journey. And really the people that I encountered there have really helped me get to this place. A lot of great professors, of course, but also my fellow students, and they became mentors and colleagues and it’s evolved along the years. I’ve spent 20-plus years in academia. In fact, this is the first semester I haven’t had a full-time academic appointment. So it’s weird. I started my career at Stetson University and then UCF College of Medicine, University of Central Florida College of Medicine, where I had the amazing opportunity to contribute to helping integrate nutrition into developing the med school curriculum. From there, I went to teaching online for Central Michigan University, and in that process, it opened up a lot of doors for me, and I started seeing that the connection between academia and industry and I started doing more and more consulting a lot of writing. I really loved to write and there’s a lot of really good stories alongside nutrition, and that’s, I think, what led me down the road. I have a sports nutrition, interest and passion, and of course, dietary supplements. I wrote a textbook and my co-author, Dr. Dennis Medeiros, and I decided to include a chapter in our it was an intro to Nutrition textbook, and we included a chapter on dietary supplements. And everyone was like, Oh, some people won’t adopt your book because of it, because in traditional dietetics and nutrition supplements have always got the Yeah, they don’t really work.

Susan Hewlings: They’re snake oil. And as I learned more and more about them, I realized, you know what, that’s misinformation that’s being given out. Dietary supplements absolutely are regulated. They’re just regulated differently than drugs and over-the-counter medications. So that’s what led me down the road. And I started my consulting business, Substantiation Sciences, with one of my Florida state colleagues. So over the years, I have done a lot of writing, a lot of substantiation, and I learned so much. I took a full-time position at Nutri Source, which is a traditional CRO in our industry, and I learned so much from my colleagues in the regulatory space. So over the years I just started piecing all the things together. And what that enabled me to do was really be able to connect science to marketing, to sales. And I worked a lot with the different trade groups. I did the Vitamin D and Me project with Nutri Source and Nutri Source and CRM. Sorry, that was a collaborative project. It’s a CRM website. I got to see all the different sides of the industry and I think that really is, to answer your question, that is really what brought me to the position I have now with radical science as Vice President of Research Affairs, which might not even be a completely accurate title because what I do there is really help to connect the marketing, the sales, and the science teams. So that’s just a little bit about how I got there.

Bethany Jolley: And you’ve already talked about it, but in your career, it’s been two parts. You’ve contributed to both academia and the industry. So how has this dual perspective influenced your approach to research and evidence-based practices in the field of nutrition and supplements?

Susan Hewlings: I really think it’s enabled me to connect to them. A lot of times, especially in academia, the focus is on research and research for the sake of progressing knowledge, which certainly is very needed and not a bad thing. But what sometimes lacks is then the ability to take that science, take that knowledge, and connect it to applicable practice or evidence base. And with the evolution of scientific information, there comes a point where that’s necessary to get it to that place. And with a decrease in funding and grants from government funding and private sources having decreased, we really do more now than ever have to make that connection to industry because oftentimes that’s what keeps the wheel going. They fund the research. In the past that was really frowned upon. It was like, Oh, if industry is funding it, it must be biased and all this stuff. And I think that if you get good, solid, academic trained scientists that know the ethics, it doesn’t have to be that way. We can govern the gate, if you will, and make sure that even if things are industry-funded, they’re still ethical, they’re sound, but they’re also applicable and connected and they support evidence-based. And having my foot in both arenas has helped me to be able to do that. And also the other aspect that’s been helpful is being able to translate and say, okay, this is complicated scientific information. Like what are they talking about? How does mitochondrial health, what does it mean? What is it? Just as an example and being able to take that from a very technical science perspective and translate it to the layman to the. Titchener and to the industry. Education allowed me to do that because to be a good educator, you have to meet the student where they are and you have a class full of students at different places. To me, that’s how it all came together.

Bethany Jolley: Yeah, I think that’s so important. Just being able to educate people so they understand it because sometimes I think you review the research, you review these clinical studies and it can be a bit confusing. So really helping the consumers and the practitioners understand that is so important.

Susan Hewlings: Absolutely. And it helps from a regulatory perspective, too, in compiling documents for substantiation dossiers or graphs or dice and those sort of regulatory documents as well.

Bethany Jolley: Exactly. And I think radical science is pioneering a novel approach to clinical research. So can you explain to us how this innovative model is redefining the way health and wellness products can prove their effectiveness beyond just the placebo effect?

Susan Hewlings: Absolutely. I was intrigued about radical science the minute that I heard about them. And then once I talked to their co-founders, Dr. Jeff Chen and Pelin Thorogood, their passion and interest for the topic in the field is like, It’s addictive for sure. Dr. Chen ran a cannabis research lab prior to COVID, and when COVID shut down the lab, he reached out to Pelin Thorogood and they came up with this amazing idea. And the idea was, What if we could do clinical trials without having to worry about a lab or a clinic or an actual building? What about decentralized trials? And what if we made those decentralized trials? And by that I mean virtual Everything was done virtual. But if we made them so that they were affordable and faster. So if we address all the barriers. So if we look at dietary supplements and we say, why aren’t more companies’ ingredients? Why aren’t more of them doing trials, why are they relying on existing science only and not taking the next step to do their own trials? They can be very costly, timely, and prohibitive. What if we came up with a way that didn’t have to be that way? And that’s what they did? So they came up with a model that is faster, cheaper, and more accessible. And in doing so, they also made sure that they increased diversity. One of the biggest challenges that we’ve looked at in developing products, whether they’re dietary supplements like what radical tests or even in medicines and over-the-counter drugs, is a lack of diversity in the trials.

Susan Hewlings: Historically, most of the trials have been done on white males, but the call has been from multiple government agencies. We have to increase diversity from ethnicities, races, gender, etcetera. So radicals’ model allows that to happen because they recruit subjects across the United States in all areas. So people that traditionally wouldn’t have had access to a like in rural areas or people who work, people who have kids, they don’t have time to go into the CRO and get work done. It can do these trials on their phone. They can do them when they have a break from work or their kids are napping or whatever the case may be. And so Radical provides randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials to everyone across the US to validate claims. And the other thing is because of this model, they’re able to have more people in each arm. So rather than just having a group of people taking a supplement that’s like 50 people or 20 people, it’s hard to get a real diverse sample when it’s that small. What we do are very large trials, a minimum of 250 people per arm. So we really get to see, okay, what are the feedback from the participants? The other great thing is one of the things that’s lacking in a lot of the studies, we have these great complicated scientific studies where we look at biomarkers and mechanism of action and cellular reactions, and they’re intriguing and they’re great for substantiation.

Susan Hewlings: But one thing they’re missing is did the people feel better at radical we’re getting at? Do the people taking the supplement feel better after they take it? So we’re utilizing validated surveys that are asking the people who are taking it, how do you feel? Do you feel better? So if it’s a sleep study, did you sleep better? Did you fall asleep faster? Did you stay asleep and all these things? So it addresses really all the gaps that we were seeing in substantiation in the dietary supplement space. In addition, the trials are templated. What that means is it allows them to be less expensive, but then we can use AI to learn and to progress forward and to see, okay, we’ve done now ten sleep studies. They have the exact same methodology. What can we learn from the participants that are seeking sleep supplements and are then taking the various supplements that we’re testing? And I can really help us move that forward and learn more each time. We can recruit better, more diverse samples each and every time that we do a study.

Bethany Jolley: Yeah, that’s fantastic because those traditional clinical trials really can be so expensive. And I think you do miss out on particular individuals because like you said, they just don’t have the time to go and get tested or do whatever is necessary. And so that’s great that you’re able to do that in this way and right sharing with us some success stories or examples of how radical science has delivered objective health outcome data across diverse conditions and populations, ultimately benefiting consumers and companies alike. Absolutely.

Susan Hewlings: We. Just recently, I’ll use our recently published example. We just recently published in Nutrients, which is an open-access journal, and I’ll give you the link and you can share it. We just recently published a sleep study partnering with Bio Wellness, the doctor’s brand looking at their botanical blend with sleep. And so we found that the botanical blend, they compared two different versions of it, and the people taking their low THC meaning like compliant THC version saw an improvement in sleep over placebo. In addition, we have coming out very shortly, we’re in the process of reviewing a study looking at CBN and sleep, so very similar botanical blend in the cannabinoid space, but a little different of a blend. And the focus in both is on the effects of CBN and sleep. So those are two examples. We partnered with a lot of big companies like Gaia Herbs and the Space and can’t really share detailed results from any of the trials with Gaia, but we have partnered and done several studies with them across our different templates. We don’t just do sleep trials, we have other ones as well. So aside from our sleep studies, we have other templated designs.

Susan Hewlings: So for example, we have energy, we have immunity, we have where we look at stress. And we have a study called Clarity, which looks at cognition. So we have a lot of and more we have a lot of different study designs. In addition, we have a project that we’re looking at called Journey. And so you’ll be seeing more about that where we are really looking at the consumer responses. So not just the randomized clinical control trials, but consumer learning. So we have a lot of different things that we’re doing to partner with brands and ingredients to support their efforts to provide more clinically supported supplements from ingredients, finished products, and also not just supporting marketing claims, but helping to support formulation. So we allow brands to say, okay, well, I’m not 100% sure. We’ve done a lot of background research. We’ve looked at all these things from a mechanism of action, but we want to compare doses to make sure we get the exact same dose. Brands can do that with us as well. So we offer a lot of services to help brands have more scientifically sound finished products.

Bethany Jolley: Yeah, that’s great, especially with startups. I don’t think they’re always aware of the proper dosages that they should be using. They might be familiar with an ingredient and they might have studied that ingredient, but then they’re not actually putting the correct amount in. So I think educating them on that is really important.

Susan Hewlings: Exactly. And a lot of times companies formulate and I’ve helped companies do this before where you formulate a multi-ingredient product and there’s a lot of existing literature on each individual ingredient. So you develop the dose based on that, but you’re not sure what happens when you mix them. And that’s true from a efficacy and safety standpoint. And so the fact that our trials are so large, it also helps us to see if there’s any common side effects that occur as well. So we can help look at those finished multi-ingredient products at an affordable price, because a lot of times by the time you get through the formulation and the R&D process, you’ve invested quite a bit of money. So taking that final step is very important in looking at the multi-ingredient product.

Bethany Jolley: This episode is brought to you by nutrapayments.com. If your business needs credit card processing that fully integrates with most major neutral software platforms, offers the lowest industry prices, and has built-in features like recurring billing, $0 trials, and chargeback prevention. And visit us at nutrapayments.com for a free online quote. With your extensive background in pharmacokinetics and nutrition, how do you see Radical Science’s model influencing the future of personalized treatment plans and wellness product development?

Susan Hewlings: I think Radical has just come on the scene suddenly, quickly, just there’s a gap and we filled it and here we are. And it’s really exciting to be part of such a passionate group of people. And I think that they are raising the bar in so many different ways. In one way is to say, okay, here we removed a big excuse for people brands of why they’re not doing research on their finished products that it’s too expensive. Okay, check. Excuse gone. Oh, it takes too long. Well, no check. We took care of that too. So here we go. It’s like we’re raising the bar and saying, no, we can provide this. We’re not replacing traditional cross. We’re not intending to. That was never the point. They still are very needed. We still need the very mechanistic research. We need the detailed blood draw type studies and biomarkers and pharmacokinetics, pharmacodynamic type research. But this is how people feel. And the other example that I always say is this also will tell brands, okay, maybe you think you have enough science to support your claim, but do you have enough to justify that, to say, Yeah, people are going to buy it because it works, and then we can provide that step as well.

Susan Hewlings: So it helps not just from a substantiation point of view, it helps from an R&D, as I mentioned before, and it can also help companies if they need to go to investors, raise more money, take the next step, expand their market. Maybe they need to look into a different target audience or whatever it is to progress their brand. I’d be remiss if I didn’t also point out radical sets. An example. There are B Corp and they set an example for how they treat their employees and just their overall giving back and environmental awareness and the fact that you can actually very successfully run a tech-based science-based company without any brick and mortar because there is no we’re all virtual employees. We all live in different places. So that adds a nice little flare to a passionate group of people and work hard, play hard group, and it’s a great place to work.

Bethany Jolley: Yeah, it sounds radical. Just just come in and disrupted the industry, but in a very good way.

Susan Hewlings: Think when they first come on the scene, there was a lot of doubt. Can you just do a virtual trial? Like what about this, that, or the other thing? And I think that they’ve done a great job in embracing that, that skepticism and moving past it in a very quick period of time. And it’s been being someone who’s been in the industry for a long time, it’s been pretty cool to see that skepticism switch really fast.

Bethany Jolley: That’s awesome. And you’ve talked a lot about substantiation, and I know that you support a lot of companies with their market launch strategies, with scientific evidence. So can you provide some insight into the importance of scientific substantiation for dietary supplements and health products that are in today’s market?

Susan Hewlings: Absolutely. There’s been a lot of talk about substantiation since the FTC released their revised guidelines in December 2022. And ever since then, at every meeting I’ve been to, there’s been great discussion surrounding it. And it’s fantastic because, again, substantiation has always been there. They had a guidance that was out before. The responsible companies have always strived to utilize science in their R&D and substantiation process and think that the revised guidance has brought this increased level of awareness, brought it back to the forefront of the topic of conversation To say, hey, we are a regulated industry might not be the same way, but we are and this is what we are requiring for substantiation. Now the guidance isn’t law, it’s guidance, but responsible. It sets the bar for the industry that the responsible companies and the companies that want to really help people and provide scientifically backed products will follow the guidance. And that’s the intention of the guidance. There’s always going to be the companies that fly by nights that come in and think. The other call for it is to bring the retailers up with it, the Amazons and the Walmarts out there, and stuff like you guys need to play a role in this too. And that’s been part of what’s come out over the 2023 is a real conversation surrounding what role are the retailers going to play in requiring the brands and ingredients have that substantiation and substantiation that is in line with the guidance.

Susan Hewlings: So I think that substantiation plays a very important role from all aspects of the industry so that it’s not just the responsibility of the person creating and selling to the final provider, but the final marketplace is also responsible. And there’s a lot of. Discussion because there isn’t a very set it’s not like drug development where there’s a very set stepwise phase-wise regulatory checklist, if you will, to go to get to market. It’s a little bit more vague and that’s where the discussion is. So like how many RCTs do you need? Can you rely on existing science? And the general consensus is you need both. It comes back to the conclusion being the totality of the evidence that was put forward in both the original FTC guidance and the current FDA guidance, where it talks about competent and reliable scientific evidence and that you need competent and reliable scientific evidence behind each claim you make and you need to have that pre-market. So when you know what you’re going to say when you go to market, you need to have that and you need to make sure that you have that on all market sites so that your website, your Instagram, your TikTok, everything, any influencers that you use, all that stuff, it all needs to be compliant with competent and reliable scientific information.

Susan Hewlings: No disease claims, no science saying something you can’t back now. What does it mean to substantiate it? What goes into a substantiation dossier? The totality of the evidence. So when you put it together, you put the preclinical data in there, put the mechanism of action. If there’s epidemiological data, you put it in there and you review the appropriate existing science. So it has to be in the population you’re selling it to for the condition at the dose that you’re selling it at. And then ideally you do that clinical trial on your finished product and that becomes the totality of the evidence. And you have that dossier completed by an expert in the field, and that’s all part of the cars. So that’s a very important part of our industry that gets a lot of attention and focus and rightfully so. And that’s what protects the consumers. And we’re seeing more and more also, of course, third party certification is that look for the purity, look for to make sure that you have the amount you say that’s in there, that your regulatory compliant with overages and things like that. And the substantiation should also be part of that. And I think we’re going to see more and more of that.

Bethany Jolley: Absolutely. Those are all great points. And as you mentioned, even recently, I’ve seen a shift with retailers where they are looking for that substantiation, which is great. Vetting The products that they’re allowing coming into their stores is really important for consumers as well.

Susan Hewlings: Absolutely. It’s important for consumers. It’s important for the retailer from a litigation perspective, etcetera. And it helps to discourage the disreputable potential for brands to come in or ingredients to come in that haven’t been following any sort of substantiation guidance and just looking to make a buck kind of thing. So if we have those stop points at each level from notifying the FDA when you’re going to market, what you’re marketing claims are going to be all the way through to making sure you’re substantiation exists and is transparent. And then retailers requiring that is going to be huge every step along the way.

Bethany Jolley: Absolutely just provides more confidence for them and for the buyers.

Susan Hewlings: And consumers should definitely demand that as well.

Bethany Jolley: Yes. You mentioned earlier that you’ve done some writing, so you are the author of Nutrition Real People, Real Choices. How do real-world choices and consumer behavior impact the success and effectiveness of nutritional and dietary supplement products?

Susan Hewlings: Well, I think the real-world experience is really what Radical is trying to get at with our decentralized trials. So if we have people that are taking the supplements in their own home, in their own lifestyle, like waking up at the time, they normally wake up in the environment that they normally wake up in, drinking the coffee at the normal time, they drink everything in their normal life, real-world people. That’s the people who are taking the supplements. So we’re really getting an accurate depiction of what a consumer who’s going to be buying and taking that supplement is going to experience. And I think that’s the big advantage of the real-world trials that radicals conducting. And that gives an application. And like I said, that missing gap that we just didn’t have in our industry to test it. Because if you’re going into a clinic or a lab, it is disrupting your real-world structure, especially for like a sleep study or something like that. This way, if we have people assessing their sleep in their own bed and their own their own schedule, eating the food they normally eat. So we’re really getting very accurate real-world results by doing that. That’s great.

Bethany Jolley: So looking ahead, what are the key trends and challenges you foresee in the nutraceutical industry and how can companies adapt to stay at the forefront of science-based innovation?

Susan Hewlings: I think there’s a lot of really cool things going on right now. They’ll always be challenges, but that doesn’t mean challenges in a negative way. And I think looking at of course you can’t talk about the future without mentioning AI and what role that’ll play. I think that’s a good thing. I think that it’ll allow consumers to look things up much faster. So, okay, I want to buy this product I’m looking at here in my brick-and-mortar retailer or my online retailer. Is it substantiated scan QR code substantiation comes up, whatever that may be. Hey ChatGPT, can you tell me if it’ll be much more transparent potentially? I’m just guessing here because of course, we’re talking. I think that’s we’re already there. And then I think that the other interesting thing that’s going on in our field right now is looking at the biologics industry and how we can use microbes and other things to create what was in the past, maybe not sustainable or in a resource we’ve maybe already tapped into. How can we create nutrients, how can we affect neurotransmitters? How can we utilize our gut microbes to produce certain things that normally we would have had maybe not had access to or would have been too expensive, cost cost-prohibitive? Also, looking at supply challenges, I think COVID brought to light an overreliance on China for production of a lot of our raw materials.

Susan Hewlings: How can we use biological science, biological engineering to circumvent that, get around that, and not be overly reliant on anyone to increase and maintain our supply challenges? Those are just a few of the places. I think there’s advancements in all different levels. The other thing of course, is we are rapidly learning more and more about the connection with the gut and every other area of the body. That sparked a whole area of research looking at also the gut-brain axis and opening up a lot of doors for people who have had challenges with mental health but maybe went under the radar from a diagnosis. So, of course, the dietary supplements, we’re not developing products for people with diagnoses because that becomes a drug or an over-the-counter. But there’s this whole population globally that suffer from just clinical, maybe anxiety, depression. Mood challenges that we are learning more and more about and how we can affect those through dietary supplements and other health practices and the connection that the gut microbiome may have to that. And there’s a lot of really cool stuff going on with looking at the microbiome and trying to get at picture like what’s the difference between the microbiome of an elite athlete in the average person, an unhealthy person, and how can we use the microbiome from the fit person can and help change the unhealthy person and those kind of things.

Susan Hewlings: So I think there’s a lot of that engineering and biologics going on that’s super interesting. And of course, learning more and more about cellular health and how the the mechanisms in health inside the cell then impact every other area of the body. And coming out of our silo perspective is going to be the huge thing, right. Looking more at the idea. And think this is something that my entire career people have talked about integrative health, but now we have the technology where again, back to the gut, looking at the gut and how it influences it’s making us look at, oh, everything is connected. So how can we develop products? How can we develop things that either impact one thing to create a cascade of health benefits or target multiple areas at once? I think also the discussions that come to the forefront about the endocannabinoid system and the vitamin D receptors have helped us realize how interconnected all these things are.

Bethany Jolley: It really is fascinating. We could have a whole podcast on just gut health because of all of the new findings there are. Absolutely.

Susan Hewlings: And looking at metabolomics and I think personalized nutrition, I’d be remiss not to the advancements being made and this is an area that is beyond my training and expertise, but looking at genetic differences and metabolomics and nutrigenomics. And so when I first started talking about personalized nutrition in my graduate nutrition class, it was like, Oh, we’re a long way off from that. And every year we rapidly get closer to just being able to, okay, listen, just take a cheek swab, send it in, and we will send you an entire line of nutrition products just for you. And we are so close to that. And that’s going to be a really cool thing. We no longer will need to be talking about averages for everything and hoping that the people taking our supplements are in those average groups. So it’s fascinating times.

Bethany Jolley: Yes, that’s so neat. And it’s been really great speaking with you today. So once again, just thank you for joining us and giving us some background about radical science and your role there, and all of the other things that you’ve been able to discuss with us today.

Susan Hewlings: Anybody in the audience want to add this? It would like to participate in a radical science trial. If you want to be a participant, please go to our website and we’ll provide a link and you can fill out like a screening initial quick screening survey to see if you qualify for one of our studies. And it’s easy. Again, you just do it on your phone. It’s really cool to just see how the process works. We’d love to have you participate. You get a personalized health report at the end.

Bethany Jolley: That sounds great. I would maybe even be interested in doing that. So fantastic. As we conclude this illuminating conversation, we’ve gained a profound understanding of the transformational impact of radical science and Dr. Susan Huling’s invaluable contributions to the nutraceutical and scientific communities. For our listeners interested in exploring the groundbreaking work of radical science or connecting with Dr. Susan Huling’s will provide the necessary links in the show notes. And don’t forget to subscribe. Share your thoughts and join us in celebrating the ever-evolving world of nutraceutical innovations on social media. Until our next episode, Stay informed, inspired, and empowered. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Nutra Preneur. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and better yet, leave us a review as it really helps us grow the show.